DISQUS

Next Big Future: Blacklight Power Response to Eli Rabett

  • Brock · 11 months ago
    But when will Mills respond to GoatGuy!?!?!? :-)
  • enantiomer2000 · 11 months ago
    When GoatGuy actually analyzes the data and comes up with calculations that show that BlackLight is wrong. All he has done so far is express skepticism. I am not criticizing skepticism. He should be skeptical with the incredible claims they are making. Kudos to you GoatGuy!
  • mvetsel · 11 months ago
    To all of you skeptics:

    All I can say is that you're going to look pretty stupid in 2000 and 2001 if it turns out that Mills is right:

    (Nov 11, 1999) http://web.archive.org/web/19991116122703/http:...
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    BLP's electrolytic cells have produced 30-1000% excess power or greater for extended periods of time; some have been in operation for more than 1 year. The prototype cells created by BLP produce thermal energy immediately, continuously and consistently.
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    I'm actually most excited about their 22 pound battery that will allow a car to run for 1000 miles. I'd guess that's probably a few years away from being commercialized, but I don't mind waiting until 2004 or 2005 for a battery with over 100 times the energy density of lithium ion:

    (Aug 18, 2000) http://web.archive.org/web/20000819135135/www.b...
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    For example, the company has identified a compound with ionization properties that would enable a 10-kg battery to supply up to 150 horsepower and run 1000 miles before recharging. A battery of this type would allow automobile manufacturers to offer electric vehicles with superior performance to conventional automobiles with zero emissions. The impact of such vehicles on the automobile industry would be transformational.
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    Yes, it would be transformational indeed. To quote the 1999 BLP website, just "imagine the possibilities": if you put such a battery in a Moller Skycar (which has been on the cusp of commercialization for my entire life), you could drive-fly from NY to Chicago in three hours on a single charge.

    BLP is like a religion: it can never be disproven or discredited. Nothing that happens in 2009 or 2010 can possibly bolster the case for skeptics beyond what has already happened: huge claims followed up by years and years without anything substantial, but plenty of similar claims.

    -Mercy
  • nextbigfuture · 11 months ago
    And Microsoft delayed the release of Vista for several years and Boeing had to delay their new passenger jet for a few years. Airbus had multi-year delays as well. Carbon nanotube NRAM has been delayed for years too.

    We will not settle this now. But I am willing to put $100 on a bet of some BLP product release by the end of 2010. At least 1 MW by the end of 2010. Apparently this would be easy money for a skeptic to scoop. Could also arrange to set something up for the minimum bet on the Long Now Bets. That money goes to charity instead of the winner.
  • mvetsel · 11 months ago
    We'll never settle this, ever, but I'll take that bet. No commercially available energy product by Dec 31, 2010. To be fair, I'll make it 10 to 1. I'll bet $100 to your $10 that this is the case.

    You don't need to understand physics to recognize a scam. It's a bit like evaluating people with psychic powers. It should be very easy to prove positively that one has psychic power, but it's pretty hard to prove that someone doesn't, especially if one of the qualities of powers is that they defy systematic measurement and observation. If a psychic offers a 100 page book of equations and physics jargon to explain his abilities, I'm going to be even more skeptical.

    The claims BLP makes on their website describe a product worth over $1 trillion. Why aren't any venture capital firms publicly backing BLP? Is it because they're motivated by secrecy or is it because no smart money is interested and venture capital firms aren't biting?

    The claim is that BLP doesn't need to prove anything because they will deliver a working product and presumably desire secrecy, but if that's the case, why all of the media coverage? Why list out all of the potential uses, no matter how remote?

    All of the details match perfectly with the explanation that Mills is a fraud and not the pattern of companies developing real products or even companies doing real research. Boeing has been making machines that fly for decades and genuine research firms tend to make very specific claims.

    The fact that BLP is offering eternal salvation makes their claims less credible. If they really had something, they wouldn't need to oversell the potential.

    And then there is this aspect of him selling his physics theories to lay audiences. That's what separates Einstein from the quacks. Einstein's target audience was the group of scientists capable of evaluating his theories.

    Einstein was born in the 19th century. How many amateur physicists have there been in the 20th century who have gone on to have their work confirmed and accepted? I count zero.

    Mills is applying the time-tested principle of technology fraudsters: "if you can't blind them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit".

    -Mercy
  • nextbigfuture · 11 months ago
    It is agreed. I accept the general terms of the bet. Settlement on Jan 1, 2011 or earlier if the commercialization occurs. My $10 to your $100. It seems likely that the divergence of whether this works or does work should be clear, but there should be some detailed terms to ensure it is obvious who the winner is in the event of some kind of ambiguity.

    In particular the provability and evidence necessary for commercial sales. There could be aspects about the business model chosen (still unknown) which could raise questions. There also needs to be a third party designated as the adjudicator in the event of dispute. there may also be details in regards to settlement.

    There is a lot of media coverage now. CNN Money, NY Times, Venture Beat. We could allow a publishing of sales initiated by those media outlets to determine the status of the bet. The assumption being that clear success or failure would be published or announced in a very public way.
  • bluehigh · 10 months ago
    I 'll take the bet also. I'm in for $10 but I'm with nextbigfuture. Dr Mills will get a nobel prize or two. If the skeptics took the time to read through the documentation on CQM they would find other replicable experiments that demonstrate a 'fifth force' and a whole new range of chemical compounds. I'll bet that not only does the generation of excess thermal energy occur but that also large sections (if not all) of CQM is correct. The hyberbolic electron experiments are described in detail so you can go test them yourself.
  • dodanimal · 11 months ago
    I'll take the bet, too.
  • nextbigfuture · 11 months ago
    Ok, so DODanimal you are taking the bet under the same terms as Mercy. I am putting up $10 and you are putting up $100. There probably should some exchange of real names and contacts and the arrangement/designation of 3rd party arbitration to settle the bet. Plus we should nail down the specifics.

    Another aspect will be that I will formulate a posting announcing the bets sometime this month and then will post sometime late in 2009 or in 2010 to cover the status and especially a conclusion and settlement.
  • mvetsel · 10 months ago
    If you send an email to mvetsel, I'll send you my contact info, but we'll probably have to take each other at our word regarding verification. I think we can agree that if they are selling a device that operates as advertised there will be no ambiguity.

    Obviously, this would be big news and I will need other reliable media sources to report on the commercial availability and technical capabilities. If we use a third party, that person would have to collect the money in advance. That's too much hassle to win 10 bucks, so for me this is a point of pride rather than a way to win a pair of Starbucks coffees

    My email account is at the big internet firm that starts with Y.

    -Mercy
  • dodanimal · 11 months ago
    The link to the 1999 archived BLP website was great. It really puts things into perspective. Specifically, the proper perspective is that BLP has been making remarkable, unsubstantiated claims for many years, and has yet to deliver.

    I think Mills may have started out really believing his theories. But it probably dawned on him at some point that it wasnt working. His MD degree is now all but worthless, so the only way he can make a living is to peddle BLP stock to gullible investors.
  • GoatGuy · 11 months ago
    Mills response to Eli's thermodynamics points are themselves interesting: he's countering classical chemical thermodynamics with emperics. Further, he is proposing to have a new catalyst that works 10 times (!!!) more efficienty or productively to produce way more energy.

    OK, why is the 10x claim any more juicy than the existing technology? Is it not likely that the existing NaOH doped Ni(R) 'reactant' could actually be cast into a continuous or larger batch venture? Or is this the classic, "we're actively researching version 2.0" ... where 1.0 never quite got to market! Or maybe verion 7.0, where 1,2,3,4,5 & 6 never made it.

    Chasing rainbows: how appropriately said. Go check out www.steorn.com - for a mirror example of dead tech. Its a pretty site, it is austere, yet convincing. Note though that it was last updated in 2007 ... when the big pitch fell apart.

    Mills is just way more clever at marketing his oil than McCarthy of Steorn. It may well be that Mills is the ultimate innocent: suffering from self-delusion, and working furiously to prove that the delusion is true, while carefully not stepping into those Missouri Cow Pies: "SHOW ME".

    GoatGuy
  • bluehigh · 10 months ago
    Put your money on the table, GoatGuy.
  • EliRabett · 1 month ago
    The Raney nickle whatever has now been tossed down the hydrino hole. It was a chemical reaction, analogous to thermite.